Posts by Joe Grundy

99

January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

by wifibandit in

january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

Joe Grundy

In a response to 'Richard Oliver' on another thread I started my remarks with 'with respect'. I withdraw that. He is, IMHO, talking uninformed apologist bollocks.

You don't have to take my word for it (well, you do, of course - this is the internet!) but I discussed this with my daughter-in-law's parents. They live in the area and their first (and predominant - they tolerate me) language is Welsh. I showed them this property, explained its purported use and their laughter and expletives were multi-lingual.

Now then, just to explain a little bit about the use of Welsh and English (bear with me, it;ll help me to make my later point). Wales is not (never has been) a united country. Many local rivalries persist, with accusations of 'you're not really Welsh, we are'. The Welsh spoken in north Wales can be quite different from that spoken in the south, and both can differ from that spoken in the west (where I live). There is, nowadays, an ;official' Welsh which can confuse everyody.

My grand-daughters (7 & 5) attend a Welsh medium school (i.e. all lessons are taught in Welsh). They have homework reading books in both Welsh and English and use the languages interchangeably. At home they mostly speak Welsh with their Mum, with me we use English or they translate for me and we mix it about a bit (my Welsh is limited).

There are very very few people in Wales now who don't have working English. There are still, of course, some Welsh language chapels - I have a good friend who is a minister of some - but it's a matter of preference and they're dying out.

The Welsh language has become a bit of a political issue. All official documents, road signs, etc., are bilingual. There is official funding to promote Welsh.

So I come to my point. The property that WT bought is, by any reasonable standard, a 'luxury' property, much over=specified for its purported use, especially in a university town where far more suitable and far cheaper properties were available. I also suspect that WT may be in receipt of government subsidies for 'promotion of the Welsh language'.

Just to make it clear, I think RO is talking apolgetic bollocks,

Hwyl fawr!

144

2.16.2017 NJ Star-Ledger Ad: "Were you sexually abused by the Jehovahs Witnesses?"

by breakfast of champions in

my wife found this 1/4 page ad on page 2 of yesterday's nj star-ledger, probably the biggest newspaper in nj.

pretty telling.. .

Joe Grundy

I am not qualified (in its widest sense) to comment on US law, but I was a UK police officer for 30 years and dealt with abuse and safeguarding issues,

Richard Oliver's comments are, I respectfully submit, a deflection. To take his points in reverse order:

'Fiduciary duty' generally means a duty of care to others in relation to money, property and related matters. Thus, the directors of a company have a fiduciary duty to its shareholders to protect their interests, an investment broker has a duty to those whose assets he manages, etc. Not really relevant here.

'Warn and protect': yes, this is relevant of course to safeguarding but is not the main issue here.

I suspect that the main points of cases against against WT will be the way in which reports (and well-founded suspicions) of abuse have been (and, it seems, continue to be) dealt with. No need to go over it again, but this includes:

Interview of victim by unqualified exclusively male JWs

Two witness rule

Failure to report to authorities (thus opening up avenues of support)

JC procedures

failure to provide any measure of protection to victims or to consider further potential victims

and so on.

These failures have now been exposed and are, without doubt, accepted to fall far short of acceptable practice and are, I believe, actionable at law.

Sworn testimony given to ARC by JW people in authority provided evidence of this. I don't think it was accidental that the way the SC to ARC progressed his questioning showed that the policies and procedures emanated not from local hierarchy but from the GB - and that they applied world-wide from a highly-centralised and high-control organisation.

Evidence to ARC probably won't be admissible in US courts, of course, but it provides an excellent starting point for lawyers taking depositions in the US from US JW hierarchy.

WT HQ/GB has, it seems to me, for a long time exercised minute control over JWs world-wide, micro-managing to a fine degree. Maybe now this will come back to bite them on the ass. Jackson and others (eg Toole) made fools of themselves before ARC. If that sort of performance is repeated before juries with the power to award damages I foresee big problems for WT. And I can foresee other 'tort' legal firms joining up.

Just my opinion, of course. Could be the basis for another John Grisham book.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW.

I was a police officer (most of it a detective) for 30 years. I dealt with many cases - more than I wish to remember and some which haunt me still - of child abuse and child sexual abuse. There is no need to elaborate.

What concerns me most when I look at the WT setup is how the institutional organisation facilitates the abuse and its cover-up.

I have been extremely encouraged by the work of ARC and have confidence that it will bring about change. History shows that Royal Commissions are meaningful and effective.

To WTBTS I would give this message (in the vernacular): fuck with ARC at your peril.

18

OT - Pork was unclean... NT Now it's not?

by pleaseresearch in

this always baffled me.

either pork is unclean and wrong to eat forever, or it was a load of bull to begin with..

Joe Grundy

You might find this interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOPd80FN2ew&t=1471s

Worth watching in its entirety.

11

Numbers 31:17 and 18

by schnell in

now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

but all the women children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.. *sigh*.

it's not that i haven't seen this passage before.

Joe Grundy

This the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084bmgs

It made me think, to be honest. When I was brought up, OT characters were portrayed in fluffy striped blanket robes, wandering around with their sheep and goats doing yhwh stuff.

Now picture them in ISIS type gear, moving in to towns and villages, seeking out those who believed different to them, worshiping different gods and so on. Seizing and carrying off young girls/women as prizes of war. Beheading their enemy, burning their settlements, enslaving those they didn't kill.

But they were guided and commanded by their god, yhwh, and today they are celebrated and remembered.

Something to think about as we approach xmas and the old OT bits are read out.

11

Numbers 31:17 and 18

by schnell in

now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

but all the women children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.. *sigh*.

it's not that i haven't seen this passage before.

Joe Grundy

There was a very interesting BBC R4 documentary yesterday evening about women who left a 'closed' orthodox Jewish community in the UK. This community may actually end up being the largest Jewish community because of their strict rules, it seems.

It included arranged marriage, women losing their children if they leave the community and day-to-day stuff. For example, covering their hair (no, that didn't start with Muslims). Ordinarily, the women wear wigs. The most observant wear wigs AND hats.

You may recall bits in the OT about menstruating women being 'unclean'. In this community they have ritual bath-houses where women must attend to ritually bathe after their period - after they have used white cloths inserted vaginally to confirm the end of the flow. In any case of doubt the Rabbi is called in.

This community regard themselves as the 'true' Jews who are following their laws. Listening to this was an eye-opener for me.

10

Starting a 'Bible Study' - The Basics

by Joe Grundy in

i never was a jw.

i was brought up in a fairly fundie sect (pb) and have been for many years an interested atheist.

i am an admirer of the work of bart ehrman (and recommend his blog).. from time to time, jws call at my door and invite me to partake in a 'bible study'.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW. I was brought up in a fairly fundie sect (PB) and have been for many years an interested atheist. I am an admirer of the work of Bart Ehrman (and recommend his blog).

From time to time, JWs call at my door and invite me to partake in a 'Bible Study'. I always enthusiastically accept. (This is an area in which I am interested, and am contemplating (even at my advanced age) going to university full-time to follow a degree course).

Ehrman describes how he does a 'pop quiz' of his undergrad students on their first day. Nothing complicated, very basic stuff. I use some of his questions when a JW at my door invites me to a 'Bible Study',

Such as: How many books in the NT? In what language were they written? What was Paul's last name? Or Jesus' last name? What language did Jesus speak? And so on and so on.

Shockingly (or not) not one of the JWs inviting me to join in a 'Bible Study' has been able to answer or discuss even the most basic issues, let alone stuff like the schism with Orthodox churches etc.

'Bible Study' it most certainly is not.

114

Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou in

jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.

they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.

they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?

Joe Grundy

An interesting debate, but one IMHO will never lead to a conclusion.

I was brought up in a fundie evangelical sect (PB) which thought that the vast majority of believers outside the sect were not 'real' xians. That included RCs, CofE, etc. etc. And those were only the ones they thought they knew anything about. Orthodox, Ebionites, Marcionites, and other (to them) unknowns must have been heretics.

I am a keen but amateur student of the history of the early Jesus followers. Even my shallow reading shows just how diverse the early beliefs were. (This is why the claims of WT and other sects to be following the 'true earliest beliefs' are untenable after even basic research).

I like Bart Ehrman's work and find it thought-provoking. This is his view on 'what is a Christian':

" I think anyone who wants to call themselves Christian ought at the very least to (1) believe there is some kind of God in the world (a superior divine being of some kind) and (2) think that Jesus somehow reveals that God or makes access to that God possible or … or anything else that makes Jesus important in relationship to that God."

5

JW Comedy By An Ex-JW

by Joe Grundy in

deborah frances white 30 min radio show 14 oct.. highly recommended.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07x6mf3.

Joe Grundy

Deborah Frances White 30 min radio show 14 Oct.

Highly recommended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07x6mf3

4

Probably Not The Most Effective Anti-JW Protest ...

by Joe Grundy in

newspaper headline:.

"primary school teacher grabbed jehovah's witness by throat while celebrating end of term in swansea".

link here:.

Joe Grundy

"She started being abusive about a young women [her sister-in-law] who attended the hall. I can't repeat the exact words but it was in essence that she [her sister-in-law] was sucking penises, in a vulgar manner."

Not the sort of thing you read every day.

This story seems to have it all: drunkenness, assault, sucking penises and paedo allegations.